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	<title>Comments on: Fundamentalism and Capoeira 1/3</title>
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	<link>http://4capoeirathoughts.com/2010/01/08/fundamentalism-and-capoeira-13/</link>
	<description>Social Inclusion / Intercultural Learning / Education / Capoeira Philosophy</description>
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		<title>By: Zaraki</title>
		<link>http://4capoeirathoughts.com/2010/01/08/fundamentalism-and-capoeira-13/#comment-18321</link>
		<dc:creator>Zaraki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Sep 2011 03:14:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://4capoeirathoughts.com/?p=288#comment-18321</guid>
		<description>Followed the link and decided to weigh in. What I say *probably will not matter to anyone,* but I feel I can put just a little bit of input into a subject.

- Why a research on Capeira and social inclusion did not received any attention from those ‘socially engaged’ Mestres?

--Males. If they have people paying attention to them, then they&#039;re being social enough to fulfill their goals. The people learning will talk about everything to their friends and peers, thus bringing about the social aspect. If any one thing can threaten to draw attention away from them, then their egos will being to shrink.

- Would all their students agree with their attitude or there would be at least a few people interested in an (inter-style) exchanging of ideas towards social inclusion?

--I chiefly train in a MMA school. The school specializes in Muay Thai and Ju-Jitsu. I took to the Muay Thai very well, but needed to learn how to move my body better. I decided to test out Capoeira as it&#039;s much more &quot;active&quot; than, say, a run-of-the-mill martial arts school found in any small town. While I am not very good (or flexible), I FULLY ENJOY attending what classes that I can and from time to time I actually step away from a class having learned how to move my legs or feet just a little better. You want an exchanging of ideas? Try training under Muay Thai and Capoeira and try to merge those two radically different styles. If I want to and can do it, any other student of any other style can. (Of course, I&#039;m training to fight and that gives me reason to learn as much as possible, but my point still stands.)

- Why it is so difficult to develop inter-style and inter-group cooperation in Capoeira?

--Males. Men are hard-headed when it comes to cohesion between what they view as opposition to their goals and the goals of others. Others would call it being on a power trip. 

Let me state again: I train in two martial arts. Muay Thai and Capoeira. I am a perfect (not really, I&#039;m only human. I&#039;m just saying that for effect) example of how two styles can work together. If I can take two different things and want to make them work together, then two or more different Capoeira groups can definitely merge together under the Capoeira flag and work as a unit. This is why I will succeed in my goal, because I&#039;m willing to learn, change, adapt and merge things into an all-powerful force. If a white guy with almost no sense of rhythm can actually learn like I have, then people sticking to a more traditional form of doing things can learn how to do different things as well. Or are they just scared of change?

I&#039;m probably not going to revisit this comment, I just wanted to drop a line. If I&#039;m totally off the mark with my comments, then forgive me. I just did and said what I felt was right. I&#039;m quite passionate about what I do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Followed the link and decided to weigh in. What I say *probably will not matter to anyone,* but I feel I can put just a little bit of input into a subject.</p>
<p>- Why a research on Capeira and social inclusion did not received any attention from those ‘socially engaged’ Mestres?</p>
<p>&#8211;Males. If they have people paying attention to them, then they&#8217;re being social enough to fulfill their goals. The people learning will talk about everything to their friends and peers, thus bringing about the social aspect. If any one thing can threaten to draw attention away from them, then their egos will being to shrink.</p>
<p>- Would all their students agree with their attitude or there would be at least a few people interested in an (inter-style) exchanging of ideas towards social inclusion?</p>
<p>&#8211;I chiefly train in a MMA school. The school specializes in Muay Thai and Ju-Jitsu. I took to the Muay Thai very well, but needed to learn how to move my body better. I decided to test out Capoeira as it&#8217;s much more &#8220;active&#8221; than, say, a run-of-the-mill martial arts school found in any small town. While I am not very good (or flexible), I FULLY ENJOY attending what classes that I can and from time to time I actually step away from a class having learned how to move my legs or feet just a little better. You want an exchanging of ideas? Try training under Muay Thai and Capoeira and try to merge those two radically different styles. If I want to and can do it, any other student of any other style can. (Of course, I&#8217;m training to fight and that gives me reason to learn as much as possible, but my point still stands.)</p>
<p>- Why it is so difficult to develop inter-style and inter-group cooperation in Capoeira?</p>
<p>&#8211;Males. Men are hard-headed when it comes to cohesion between what they view as opposition to their goals and the goals of others. Others would call it being on a power trip. </p>
<p>Let me state again: I train in two martial arts. Muay Thai and Capoeira. I am a perfect (not really, I&#8217;m only human. I&#8217;m just saying that for effect) example of how two styles can work together. If I can take two different things and want to make them work together, then two or more different Capoeira groups can definitely merge together under the Capoeira flag and work as a unit. This is why I will succeed in my goal, because I&#8217;m willing to learn, change, adapt and merge things into an all-powerful force. If a white guy with almost no sense of rhythm can actually learn like I have, then people sticking to a more traditional form of doing things can learn how to do different things as well. Or are they just scared of change?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m probably not going to revisit this comment, I just wanted to drop a line. If I&#8217;m totally off the mark with my comments, then forgive me. I just did and said what I felt was right. I&#8217;m quite passionate about what I do.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Sabugo</title>
		<link>http://4capoeirathoughts.com/2010/01/08/fundamentalism-and-capoeira-13/#comment-18299</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Sabugo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Sep 2011 14:16:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://4capoeirathoughts.com/?p=288#comment-18299</guid>
		<description>Hiya,
I am coming quite late to this discussion and just would like to quickly comment on a few things related to the original post and questions. 
Capoeira is a reflection of the world and the same principles apply as to any group. Capoeira is just as inclusive or exclusive as any other group or movement. Of course it has a history of resistance and social inclusion of marginalized members of an oppressive society, but so do many other groups. There are various power and social dynamics that come into play in these situations that you described. Asking to conduct &#039;research&#039; puts you into a specific position of power. I am just guessing your comments about a non-Brazilian mestre may have inspired certain images of further loss of power. The response of the mestres towards you may then have been the polite way out of a specific loss of face for them. Of course, I may well be far off on this one. I typically try and see the different positions in situations like this. I have my personal philosophy of Capoeira and my personal motivations of why I practice and share my enthusiasm for this art form. But I also have to admit that I would never have been introduced to it if it was not commercial and if it did not have a market value. After all, I first got into contact with it in the UK, far away from its roots. Mestres have to make a living (and some may make a better living than others). 
There are probably less styles today than 150 years ago, there are very simple evolutionary laws that have been applied to study the dispersion and subsequent loss of languages, cultures, customs etc. The same principles are most likely to apply to capoeira (actually one of the little projects that I would love to undertake if I have some time). 
Today Capoeira is a complex and multi-dimensional social phenomena where our identities as practitioners, teachers and followers are invested, both at a personal and material(istic) level. This will create frictions and intergroup dynamics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hiya,<br />
I am coming quite late to this discussion and just would like to quickly comment on a few things related to the original post and questions.<br />
Capoeira is a reflection of the world and the same principles apply as to any group. Capoeira is just as inclusive or exclusive as any other group or movement. Of course it has a history of resistance and social inclusion of marginalized members of an oppressive society, but so do many other groups. There are various power and social dynamics that come into play in these situations that you described. Asking to conduct &#8216;research&#8217; puts you into a specific position of power. I am just guessing your comments about a non-Brazilian mestre may have inspired certain images of further loss of power. The response of the mestres towards you may then have been the polite way out of a specific loss of face for them. Of course, I may well be far off on this one. I typically try and see the different positions in situations like this. I have my personal philosophy of Capoeira and my personal motivations of why I practice and share my enthusiasm for this art form. But I also have to admit that I would never have been introduced to it if it was not commercial and if it did not have a market value. After all, I first got into contact with it in the UK, far away from its roots. Mestres have to make a living (and some may make a better living than others).<br />
There are probably less styles today than 150 years ago, there are very simple evolutionary laws that have been applied to study the dispersion and subsequent loss of languages, cultures, customs etc. The same principles are most likely to apply to capoeira (actually one of the little projects that I would love to undertake if I have some time).<br />
Today Capoeira is a complex and multi-dimensional social phenomena where our identities as practitioners, teachers and followers are invested, both at a personal and material(istic) level. This will create frictions and intergroup dynamics.</p>
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		<title>By: Free resources for Capoeira-related social inclusion projects &#124; 4capoeirathoughts</title>
		<link>http://4capoeirathoughts.com/2010/01/08/fundamentalism-and-capoeira-13/#comment-4710</link>
		<dc:creator>Free resources for Capoeira-related social inclusion projects &#124; 4capoeirathoughts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Oct 2010 04:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://4capoeirathoughts.com/?p=288#comment-4710</guid>
		<description>[...] I also wrote a few posts in which I mention some of Morin&#8217;s book&#8217;s concepts; please, check it out: The Brazilian People; Capoeira and Global Trends; and Fundamentalism and Capoeira. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I also wrote a few posts in which I mention some of Morin&#8217;s book&#8217;s concepts; please, check it out: The Brazilian People; Capoeira and Global Trends; and Fundamentalism and Capoeira. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: 4CapoeiraThoughts</title>
		<link>http://4capoeirathoughts.com/2010/01/08/fundamentalism-and-capoeira-13/#comment-210</link>
		<dc:creator>4CapoeiraThoughts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 00:57:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://4capoeirathoughts.com/?p=288#comment-210</guid>
		<description>Joaninha,

I got your point, and I agree with it. It shouldn&#039;t but it does. I don&#039;t believe in this dichotomy, though. Not even in regards to academic knowledge and empirical experience in Capoeira; these fields are certainly different, but can be complementary.

I&#039;ll send you Dr Decânios books in pdf format; they&#039;re available to download so I think it&#039;s not a problem. Mestre Acordeon&#039;s book is really good and you might find something on the historical part, but the following parts of the book composes a novel. Ring of Liberation was written using semiotics, so it could be spot on depending on what you want. Nestor uses a lot of metaphors as well in an attempt to explain what you called &#039;streetsmart&#039;.

Axé! And thank you!
Eurico</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joaninha,</p>
<p>I got your point, and I agree with it. It shouldn&#8217;t but it does. I don&#8217;t believe in this dichotomy, though. Not even in regards to academic knowledge and empirical experience in Capoeira; these fields are certainly different, but can be complementary.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll send you Dr Decânios books in pdf format; they&#8217;re available to download so I think it&#8217;s not a problem. Mestre Acordeon&#8217;s book is really good and you might find something on the historical part, but the following parts of the book composes a novel. Ring of Liberation was written using semiotics, so it could be spot on depending on what you want. Nestor uses a lot of metaphors as well in an attempt to explain what you called &#8216;streetsmart&#8217;.</p>
<p>Axé! And thank you!<br />
Eurico</p>
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		<title>By: Joaninha</title>
		<link>http://4capoeirathoughts.com/2010/01/08/fundamentalism-and-capoeira-13/#comment-209</link>
		<dc:creator>Joaninha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 00:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://4capoeirathoughts.com/?p=288#comment-209</guid>
		<description>I agree that there *shouldn&#039;t* be that dichotomy, just thought that some people see one and so maybe that mentality contributed to your problems in getting your research done. Also, I get the feeling that &quot;philosophy of capoeira&quot;, much of which comes from living and experiencing and progressing through capoeira for much of your life, is different from what we&#039;d probably call &quot;academic&quot; treatment of capoeira.

I&#039;ve been trying to get my hands on Decanio&#039;s book for years! I haven&#039;t read Little Capoeira Book or Ring of Liberation, but have Roots of the Dance-Fight-Game. What do you think of Mestre Acordeon / Bira Almeida&#039;s book?

Thanks! 
Joaninha</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that there *shouldn&#8217;t* be that dichotomy, just thought that some people see one and so maybe that mentality contributed to your problems in getting your research done. Also, I get the feeling that &#8220;philosophy of capoeira&#8221;, much of which comes from living and experiencing and progressing through capoeira for much of your life, is different from what we&#8217;d probably call &#8220;academic&#8221; treatment of capoeira.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been trying to get my hands on Decanio&#8217;s book for years! I haven&#8217;t read Little Capoeira Book or Ring of Liberation, but have Roots of the Dance-Fight-Game. What do you think of Mestre Acordeon / Bira Almeida&#8217;s book?</p>
<p>Thanks!<br />
Joaninha</p>
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