I got your point, and I agree with it. It shouldn’t but it does. I don’t believe in this dichotomy, though. Not even in regards to academic knowledge and empirical experience in Capoeira; these fields are certainly different, but can be complementary.

I’ll send you Dr Decânios books in pdf format; they’re available to download so I think it’s not a problem. Mestre Acordeon’s book is really good and you might find something on the historical part, but the following parts of the book composes a novel. Ring of Liberation was written using semiotics, so it could be spot on depending on what you want. Nestor uses a lot of metaphors as well in an attempt to explain what you called ’streetsmart’.

Axé! And thank you!
Eurico

I’ve been trying to get my hands on Decanio’s book for years! I haven’t read Little Capoeira Book or Ring of Liberation, but have Roots of the Dance-Fight-Game. What do you think of Mestre Acordeon / Bira Almeida’s book?

Thanks!
Joaninha

Thanks a lot for your contributions!

What amazed me was that this mestre I was visiting knew about my research and boasts himself a social inclusion project… But I guess if such endeavour is not done through his group, then it’s not valid. Either because the tool used – Capoeira – is not authentic enough or because in my case (academic and empirical) such endeavour requires more reflection and self-critic about to what extent it’s really effective.

I’m with you when you say that inter-group can be challenging and interesting at most times, not difficult. But in this case there was no cooperation at all, and I knew this guy, have been attending his classes in other events, have been chating with him for a long time… He said he was ok with the purpose of my visit and agreed in letting me conducing interviews during his event, but as soon as I got there, everything changed.

It was a good and rich experience though. Not by chance we have all these interesting contributions from many countries.

Axé Mestre!
Thank you once more!

As far as I know there is no such dualism – mind and body – in Capoeira. The folk wisdom present in the lessons of our Capoeira ancestors assure us that their practice was sounded in a strong philosophy. This behaviour of discriminating educated people came up recently as an attempt of a few to hold power. (I’m writing a small post on the ‘politics of Capoeira’ covering this issue as well)

In past times Carybé, Jorge Amado, Mario Cravo, and Pierre Verger, amongst others that I can’t remember right now, were constant in Rodas de Capoeira regardless of styles. Mestre Pastinha had his practice deep grounded in philosophical concepts; Dr. Decânio and Jair Moura wrote many books on Capoeira… So, in my view, this discrimination comes with the attempt of justifying unjustifiable practices in Capoeira today. Although, some times it might happen due to insecurity or lay prejudice of different areas of knowledge.

About your seminar, yes I have done one paper once that covered cognitive theory. These are some of the material I think it might help for a paper like yours:
- In portuguese you can find good material in Muniz Sodré’s books (Verdade Seduzida and Mestre Bimba: Corpo de Mandinga).
- In English you can find in Nestor Capeoira’s book (The Little Capoeira Book) and in Lewis’ (Ring of Liberation).

But I guess you know about all this already… Anyway, these are my 2 cents ;)

Thanks for your contributions!!
Axé!
Eurico

Firstly – I personally dont understand groups/masters/instructors that isolate their students or prefer that they dont play in other’s rodas! Why? Because that is the place to learn what no one can teach; the games between different groups are interestingly different in many ways. I do understand not training with other groups but this whole roda thing where it is just one group and one style – can become uninteresting and mind-numbimg!

Why a research on Capeira and social inclusion did not received any attention from those ’socially engaged’ Mestres? Some don’t see it as important others do. Did or do you have good relationships with these people? If they don’t know you or disagree with something about your way then what is in it for them?

Why it is so difficult to develop inter-style and inter-group cooperation in Capoeira? Is it so difficult? I think that the group interaction is important and as my master explained “Uma Mao lavar oltra” If someone visits me I visit them – not alone but with students – and with the passing of time we develop our relationship. I also make the first step and wait their return visit. Interaction and group visits take time and sacrifice but that doesn’t make it difficult I prefer to say “interesting”. London I can say has a great number of groups that visit each other and develop this open roda understanding. Not all people move in the same circles though so the ones I don’t see probably have their own circle of friends they exchange with.

I’ve run out of time but hope I have added something.

Simon

Which brings me to what this post made me think, which was that I know you already said that they agreed to do the interviews ahead of time, but I wonder if there is sthg to the idea of not being afraid of research, but just not exactly caring for it? Just from my own experience, I’ve definitely had arguments trying to defend merits of the “intellectual” from a teacher or two, which in capoeira is often seen as useless, naive, irrelevant, airy-fairy, especially once you throw in the usual binary of booksmart vs. streetsmart (aka malicia aka fundamental concept of capoeira)! Just my 2 cents.

p.s. Have you ever done cognitive or linguistics theory? I’m taking a seminar that basically looks at cognition/linguistics/literature combined, and got approved to write my term paper on conceptual metaphors in capoeira!!

Thanks for these amazing contributions! Please, keep discussing and sharing your thoughts and experiences.

Inspired by your discussions I wrote a post on the ‘politics of Capoeira’ and Paulo Freire’s concepts of education. Nothing really in details, but calling attention to his work, that I’m you can find in pretty much every language in a good library. It’ll be coming up soon.

Also I would like to invite you to the next events I’ll be holding classes, talks and playing as well, of course.

For those in Europe please be tuned to this website – http://www.cordao.se the event will be held sometime between April and May

For the keen travellers I’ll be holding the ‘Jogo Aberto’ an immersion event of one week, training, playing and discussing these issues with students and friends from different groups. For this one I’ll post something over the blog soon, but you can find details now on http://www.capoeira.org.au

Abraços para todos!
Eurico

Muito obrigado pela sua atenção e suporte! I must confess that all this discussion led me to write another post on ‘the politics of Capoeira’ through Paulo Freire’s concepts of education. It’ll be coming up soon.

What I meant about Sweden is that maybe we all could have a two fold event there: meeting everyone who’s been discussing issues here for a debate after my talk over these issues and playing some good Capoeira together. How does that sounds to you? I’ll come up with dates as soon as my trip schedule is confirmed, ok?

Abraço!
Eurico

I’ll be in Europe within a few months. First we’ll hold an event here in which I’ll hold some classes and give a talk, then I’ll probably be visiting a social project involving Capoeira in refugee camps in Syria (if you or anybody know of other projects like this in Europe please drop me a few lines) before arriving in Sweden for more classes and a talk as well.

Everyone is welcomed to attend both events, here and in Sweden. Details for the event here are online at http://www.capoeira.org.au and soon about the Swedish event at http://www.cordao.se

I hope to catch up personaly with you guys at some stage.
Axé!
Eurico

“Last year in my group in Valencia, came a girl from Istrael, of Cordao de Ouro and I saw perfectly the difference.I found her game very interesting and artistic respect to mine, but for me is very hard playing with regional capoeiristas, maybe it’s my limit.

If the roda is an un-official one, on the beach or in the park without contramestres around I can play just for fun with regionaleros, but if the roda is serious, one official….I avoid……”

“hola “frenzen”!
i know what you mean! “real” regional (“purists”) play a game that can be hard to get into – fast, scary, less “jogo de dentro”. not for me either…. but i think it’s everyone’s responsibility to try and match their game to your opponent’s – you try a bit of regional, they try slow down and engage a bit more for you – watch what happens! much more enjoyment and learning for everyone.

so not “your” limit – also “theirs” if they refuse to play angola, or angola style, or in any way adapt their game to you! it takes a lot of knowledge, courage and experience to be versatile.

but this crossover mentality is new in capoeira and difficult (not just in capoeira – many groups in other sports or art forms have difficulty sharing and “letting go of their identity”). i might be a bit of a hippy there!

but enough of me babbling, if you like these kind of discussions and thoughts and engaging in capoeira in a different way (not just physical i mean), check http://www.4capoeirathoughts.com!
axe
donana”

once again if i can i would like to state that this a global phenomenon that i see in a lot of art forms and teachings. i have worked for several bosses and everytime i changed jobs, my new boss wanted me to conform to HIS practice. when i had less experience of my own, i did listen to them too – hopefully now that i do have my own ways, i won’t see them (my ways i mean) as the holy grail either, like my old bosses before me!
and isn’t it exactly the same in religion, wars have been started over who’s wrong and who’s right and whose vision should be the one everyone has to follow. or as in art appreciation (or arists themselves) – if you’re a painter, or love painting, but are not into “cubism” for example, does that make you a “non-true artist”? everyone will pick from the big pile what fits their visions and preferences, and in my opinion that’s the way it should be and has to be respected.

i think in the end it’s about (money and) power. power corrupts. this might sound over the top and i’m not talking on a huge scale here, but there will always be “leaders” and “followers” – it’s part of the natural human psyche. it is so hard to be absolutely open-minded and free of prejudice! buddhists spend their lifetime looking for this!

anyway this thread is getting huge, it’s great! but hard to keep it all together in my head. i might have drifted off miles away. time for some reflection!
donana

There is another sort of irony nowadays , if we think about the time when the Africans were shifted on the portuguese ships to the other side of the Atlantic. Inside those holds the slaves found themselves chained close to each other and they might be ancient enemies, coming from whatever the villages , randomized , speaking different languages , having different legacies and religions and differents thoughts as well. But they unifed to fight against slavers ,without too many words : they made deeds not words and they escaped to the quilombos. Today the historical situation “APPARENTLY” is different and some of them take the luxury to forget the calvary of their ancestors, and they do words not deeds, or deeds to defend personal ,materialistic intrests.
Yes, today .more than ever we need to love our honest Mestres and we want to give them inspiration : this is our task and commitment as learners ( I’m a learner for sure ).
Hope to play with you someday
AXE’ VOVO’

You are right about high standards! This is getting too complicated for me! :))
This intellectual roda encourages to think, but at the same time I realize that I JUST WANT TO PLAY.
True liberation starts within and I want to believe that even mestres can be changed (what an irony! we always blame them for creating rigid rules and being authoritarian, but it’s us who conform to them). They themselves need more love and inspiration from their students :)

Zarina

M.Bimba was the Sun that enlighted and paved the way to develop Capoeira while Pastinha was the alter ego of the Giant, the small David that alerted us against the warship of the Golias of Capoeira. Pastinha protected the roots of Capoeira and the geniality of Mestre Bimba.
without Mestre Pastinha Capoeira today would be just another new martial art, in a market dominated by the Asians.
He was the guard of freedom and creativity.
The ‘Chamada” was the simbol of the friendship : the open hand upward to remember that we are all brothers under the guide of our
teachers. The symbol of Peace among capoeiras with good will .
…Capoeira is a way of life, a philosophy based on freedom , cheerfulness, respect and cooperation…”

If one of this factors are missed , when I came out of a Capoeira event I always realized that Capoeira was not there, and I did not come back.
So the “closed groups ” will end as Gaby and Predador say.

Axe’
VOVO’

I think the whole point can be wrapped in this sentence of you:

“Some of them were playing at the streets, but now they teach in gyms and/or cultural centres only and mainly in developed western countries.”
(in answer to Espada’s comment.)

I don’t want to be in-respectful to any body but I think it is a problem of calling some people as masters without having the criteria of being a master.
A Master for me is enlightening, humble, wise, patient, under a continuous process of improvement and learning himself.
Dear Eurico what I have learned from Capoeira is a memory of our workshop in Västerås in last Summer,
Angola, Regional, people from China, Denmark, Sweden, Scotland, Chile, Pakistan and …
all together with respect and peace.

We have a saying in Iran, we say:
The one who knows and knows that knows will win the whole,
The one who knows but doesn’t know that knows, wake him up!
The one who doesn’t know but knows that doesn’t know, he will reach his goal sooner or later,
BUT
The one who doesn’t know and doesn’t know that doesn’t know, will stay in his double ignorance for ever.

one more thing before morning sleeping, maybe next time you can just use some observation techniques instead of honest interviewing technique and just write down your observations of your small chats instead of asking them politely for their permission and contribution in a valuable scientific research.
I think you frighten them by your research word. ;)
I wish you best luck in all aspects of your life.
looking forward to see you here in Sweden
Panda

Nice one! Good contribution.

Although this is an issue I believe I’ll be approaching it every now and then (I’m currently writing a post on Capoeira and Paulo Freire’s libertarian concept of education, spot on this matter), I would like to share my view on hierarchy with you.

However, before, I would like to call attention to the other side of the coin. Usually the instructor (teacher, Mestre) is one risking his/her financial situation when organising events, and/or even running classes to build a group.

S/he begins from scratch and very often without much help, or with some support but still holding total responsibility. Sometimes we (heads of groups) face a lot of criticism from people who came and go more often than they stay and cooperate; this is rarely the case of constructive critics followed by engagement of its author helping to solve the matter. For this reason, I have been saying in my talks and workshops that those who criticise should bear in mind that in order to give most people the chance of choosing how many times a week (sometime even less) they will attend their groups’ activities, the head of the group (instructor, teacher or Mestre) is giving a life time of full commitment, even when the groups’ activity are not sufficient to make a fare living.

Having said that, I really believe that the real role of a teacher is to be a source of inspiration and guidance. We don’t really teach, we inspire people to begin their journey to then, afterwards, serve as a source of wisdom and companionship. If one wants to save time and energy within the Capoeira world (sometimes in life in general) s/he seeks for the teacher’s guidance. However, the students are the ones with the free will to decide whether or not they’ll follow the advices. That’s part of my viewpoint on hierarchy.

Finally, please don’t leave Capoeira because of these kind of people! Capoeira needs more open-minded people to oppose the corporative values that are been forced to it as natural. I’ll be in Sweden soon for workshops and talks, and I would love to meet you there.

Thanks for your support!
Axé!
Eurico

Thank you both for your participation. I hope to see you around more often.

As I mentioned above, westernisation, as I see it goes beyond adopting a capitalist paradigm only; and it compromises some of the core values of Capoeira as well. Please check my reply on Canarinho’s comment.

Abraços!
Eurico

I’m with you when you say that westernisation encompass much more the capitalist market’s logic. Whilst Capoeira is been translated quickly to conquer larger market in developed countries is also been adapted into the western mindset, a phenomenon that goes much beyond the ‘capitalisation’ only. Dualism, Manicheism, and top-down hierarchy increases in Capoeira as it’s adapted to western mindset. The idea of knowledge is power, as you mentioned in early days of Capoeira in Germany is an example.

But I would like to leave a question. Ganga Zumba, a camarada who have been participating in our discussions over here, stated that cooperation out of Brazil is easier due to the scarcity of groups, etc. You say that you are not sure whether NZ reflects in Capoeira an egalitarian attitude or is just pure necessity.

So, in the second case, cooperation takes place only until groups are settled? Than the competitive mindset would take over? Is that so? What do you think?

Abraços Canarinho! Até breve!
Eurico

A few other thoughts on your comments… I don’t know where do you live, but I’ll be in Europe this term, and we might be able to catch up at some point. I’m looking forward to that.

As I replied to your comment above, I think we are thinking alike, the exception here is that I differentiate that much capitalisation from westernisation, as the ruling paradigm in the west is the capitalist one.

I agree with you that the heads of the majority of our groups are not westerners, but they are adapting the practice of Capoeira to this market’s logic. Some of them were playing at the streets, but now they teach in gyms and/or cultural centres only and mainly in developed western countries. But this does not have to be the only way, the Movimento Novo and the Urban Ritual are examples of people engaging with other forms of Capoeira practising.

I’ll leave here now… But I think with more participation this discussion can raise lots of different matters and viewpoints.

Axé!
Eurico