Comments on: Capoeira: Have your say!

By: 4capoeirathoughts

4capoeirathoughts — Wed, 16 Dec 2009 01:50:07 +0000

Oi Vovô!

Thanks for your contributions. I do agree that the elder Mestres were much more wise and selfless in their Capoeira quest.

Mestre Pastinha remains a wise source for today’s Capoeira; as ‘wisdom on the contrary of knowledge, does not age’.

Seu Vicente had many other important contributions like the intercultural origin of Capoeira; not so popular to the Afro-centric approach. He also commented on the broader cultural context in which Capoeira was inserted, mentioning that he missed the presence of ‘viola’ in Rodas de Capoeira.

I’ll see what I can do to post some bits and pieces of Mestre Decânio’s book on Mestre Pastinha’s manuscript any time soon; as I think these deserve a space of its own.

Axé!

By: sandro lionello aka vovo'

sandro lionello aka vovo' — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 22:38:38 +0000

from “Heranca de Pastinha” , by Mester Decanio here is a diamond for us , capoeristas of the new era, a precious gift from Mestre Pastinha. We need to keep him alive ! We have to ! :

2.2.2. “…e’ uma revolucao no meio que se destina”…
“Nao e’ para estranhar, no meio do esportes, mesmo de Angola”: o aparecimento de uma obra como a presente bem estudada, e’ uma revolucao no meio que se destina, esse Centro, trouxe uma NOVA LUZ para o mundo esportivo de capoeira; si antes nao foi aceita,…ja` hoje e’ bem aceita de boa vontade:…”
(68b, 10-170.
…UMA OBRA BEM ESTUDADA COMO ESTA”…
…traz a` luz uma nova faceta da capoeira…
…sera’ bem recebida pelo mundo esportivo a que se destina…
…pois acrescenta os fundamentos metafisicos …
….indispensaveis a`s aplicacaoes PEDAGOGICAS E TERAPEUTICAS !

Moreover, just to accomplish the recent commented matter with Ganga,

2.2.3.-…”capoeristas que nao tem apoio”…
‘…ha’ muitos variados , capoeristas que nao tem apoio dividem-se em classes sem importancia,
pela ignoranca, pelo orgulho, nada de bom, ve’, e nao aceita, porque?
(69a,3-6)
…Pastinha censura aqueles que…
…por ignorancia…orgulho,…
…sem falar no interese comercial
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ! ! !

dividem a capoeira em categorias sem importancia…
…COMO REGIONAL E ANGOLA…
e nao aceitam a verdadeira capoeira…
O JOGO DE CAPOEIRA…
donde surgiram dois estilos…
criados pelos dois maiores mestres da Capoeira Bimba e Pastinha…

…os primeros alunos de Bimba…
mesmos os da classe dominante…
…durante o jogo de dentro..
.., e no jogo baixo…
nao se distinguiam do estilo daquele de Pastinha…
…Dr.Jayme Tavares, Dr,Cisnando Lima, Dr.delsimaretc.
(in the original pages more names follow)
…Brasilino e Edvaldo “Rosa” ( filho de Bimba)…e
eu tambem
poderiam participar de jogos com qualquer Angoleiro…
sem sair estilo !
…a diferencia era fruto das regras…
que proibiam…
…certos movimentos no estilo de Pastinha…
…tolerados… incentivados pelo de Bimba…
…A REGIONAL…no dizer de Pastinha…
…E’ A MESMA CAPOEIRA ANGOLA
NAO HAVENDO MODIFICACAO…
…QUE FACA PERDER O SEU PRECIOSO VALOR”…

,,acredito firmemente que
os jogo reunindo os dois estilos
nao apena sao possiveis, como,
respeitando-se as regras fundamentais..
apresentadas por Pastinha…
serao muito beneficos
aos atuais praticantes do estilo de Bimba ++…
desfigurado pela aceleracao do ritmo do toque!

++( this is mine ( VOVO’) : and also of some Angoleiros, unfortunately and gor other reasons)

I’m also a rock climber and I never forget what my teachers used to tell me :” Remember, we climb on the shoulders of our old Teachers !”
As a capoeira I should practise it as well : we play capoeira , we live our existences , we progress only follwing the wisest ones. Another issue coming out from this article is that we do not read enough about the Capoeira history …we should and we could then avoid to be misleaded by modern charlatans.

MUITO AXE’ !

VOVO’

PS Please , for simultaneus translation I call for C.M Eurico ! Obrigado , amigo meu.

By: sandro lionello aka vovo'

sandro lionello aka vovo' — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 08:41:39 +0000

Capoeira is sinonimous of freedom : labels? I hate them . Who tries to label aims to becomes the boss.

It is beautiful to practise anywhere with this sense of freedom inside the soul!

More over I will carry on to visit groups and make new friends and my aim will be to keep close to all friends, in name of freedom, in name of those before us who gave their lives and/or fought for emancipation. Which style do you play?: I play Vovo’’s style with plenty of fun, childhoodness and laughter.
We need to be united ,looking for cooperation to help the oppressed ones.
Once i said :” I would like to play both “capoeira Suassuna” & ” capoeira Jogo de Dentro” Someone answered :’Good Luck! “.

Well I took it seriously and I enjoy to practise this task !

VOVO’

By: 4capoeirathoughts

4capoeirathoughts — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 04:35:55 +0000

Ganga,

As you travel a lot and visit different groups, I would like to ask you something: How does the groups that train specifically one or another style sees your ‘holistic’ take on your practice? Do you have friends on these groups, what do they tell you about your take?

Axé!

By: 4capoeirathoughts

4capoeirathoughts — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 00:55:28 +0000

Oi Canarinho,

Welcome to the 4CapoeiraThoughts!

I’m with you when you say that all forms of Capoeira are legitimated. But could you explain me better in which ways having the understanding of ‘a deeper meaning’ would foster social inclusion and positive contributions?

As for my quoting, I’m sure the spreading of Capoeira is inserted in a broader socio-cultural and economic global trend. However, after its spreading the extent to which Capoeira is cause or effect within these trends gets complicated.

Problems of livelihood can occur when Capoeira sharpens group competition and oppose, for instance, people from the same local community.

Equality is a problem when counterparts who participate in the development of the art living in poor countries does not have the same chance to establish a career as practitioners in developed countries have.

So, in this way “suffering’ means whatever affects the international practitioners lives through the practice of Capoeira.

Does that make sense to you?

Lets keep ‘talking’.

Axé!

By: 4capoeirathoughts

4capoeirathoughts — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 00:13:30 +0000

Hey Ganga!

Nice to see you around again!

I agree with you. The sense of belonging is something natural to human beings. And I’m with you 100% when you say that Capoeira can be seen as common cultural practice bringing diverse people together; as we all ‘belong’ to the Capoeira community.

But why sometimes belonging make to difficult to understand the way other people develop their Capoeira practice?

Axé Ganga!

By: canarinho dalemanha

canarinho dalemanha — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:57:36 +0000

Hi Eurico,

In your post above, I will sign the statement that in today’s globalised world “the rapid motion of ideas and ideologies, people and goods, images and messages, etc”, produces “fundamental problems of livelihood, equity, suffering, justice, and governance”.

Capoeira has spread with globalisation, and as you say, I perceive Capoeira to be promoting promoting social inclusion and positive contributions to practitioners’ lives – for those practitioners that accept this deeper meaning. To other practitioners it might just be mocking around or showing off or having fun – all of which is legitimate.

I’m not sure if I agree with the spreading of Capoeira producing “fundamental problems of livelihood, equity, suffering, justice, and governance”. Do international practinioners “suffer” because of Capoeira spreading? Do they “suffer” from the meaninglessness globalisation has brought into some Capoeira teaching? Do they care? Same goes with livelihood. Many practinioners outside Brazil are those who can afford paying for classes. Governance? Maybe the globalisation of Capoeira and the increase in female practitioners has made Capoeira less governed by a macho attitude, which I find personally quite enjoyable.

Maybe Eurico could highlight what he means by that statement, then I can sign that, too :-)

Axe, Canarinho

By: Ganga

Ganga — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:29:19 +0000

Eurico,
I believe that it is only natural for one to want to belong to something. A sense of belonging and family. Now days capoeiristas come from all over the world and we recognize capoeira as a Brasilian art form. From Japan to Spain… you can travel and not speak the local language, but we can communicate through portuguese and physical interaction. I took a trip to Budapest, Hungary, I don’t speak Hungarian by the way, to visit a capoeira group in Budapest… even there I was able to communicate with Hungarians not in their language and not in english, but in portuguese the tongue of capoeira. I cannot put a finger on it, but there is something about capoeira that satisfies the need to belong. People from all walks of life coming together in whatever group they belong to learn something different from how they were born and raised. For me capoeira is more than just an art form… it is a way of living. Now… how this way of living is received by a groups students is in the hands of the teacher.
Axé,
Ganga

By: Ganga

Ganga — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:11:40 +0000

Vovo,
I find your thoughts interesting. I also started capoeira in San Diego and my first group practiced both sides of the spectrum Regional and Angola. Now some 7 years later I feel that there is no way to describe my way of playing… just simply capoeira. It is a combination of what the berimbau says and how I feel. My mood reflects in my game. I have been to schools that train only regional and those that train only angola. I understand their origin and purpose, but I look at capoeira as my life. I feel that in life we should be prepared for any and everything and to me this can only be accomplished by being open to everything. I respect in all forms of capoeira and use this to better myself and those around me.
Axé,
Ganga

By: sandro lionello aka vovo'

sandro lionello aka vovo' — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 08:59:07 +0000

That was alucky starting point for Mestre Suassuna: entering the Capoeira world togethetr with
two friends and understanding , after all those struggle learning process, the whole thing!

We also are lucky to read this biography, which will give us the chance to understand what’s
going on today by means of a comparison.

I look forward for next chapter.
thank you C.M Eurico !
Axe’
Vovo’

By: sandro lionello aka vovo'

sandro lionello aka vovo' — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 09:40:11 +0000

“I started to practise Capoeira in the so called Regional style. I was excited and happy to have
the chance to get close to this magnificent brazilian art. I was not aware about any other style.
The instructor was a member of Capoeira Brazil Group based in San Diego, California. The way
they use to play is very acrobatic and phisically demanding. It took me a while to get used to it
,but I liked very much and I did not give up . One day I found myself playing in a Roda with a
Israeli girl that was moving and kicking differently and at a certain point the instructor stopped
her and asked her to do not use certain movements. It was the first time I heard about
Capoeira Angola.
I was more curious and I wanted to know more about it. I did not know yet that I was going to
come across an issue, a big argument : the major difference between the two styles is about a
cultural matter. In Regional they never speak about legacy or rituals or spirituality, they
privilege both the athletic and the spectacular sides of Capoeira, it is more a show, more
superficial , but it attracts a lot of people.

GAP !

In Capoeira Angola the style of playing is more ritualized and you hear more about its african
origins, religiosity and “Candomble’ & Orixas” .

The difference is huge , but it has became also a gap.

What I discovered was very intriguing and I was curious to learn more about all this matter.

I like to simplify and I love to think Capoeira as only one. Capoeira is a simbol or freedom and
it is means freedom from slavery. The slaves were able to free themselves because they made
themselves one people determinated for the sake of emancipation : this was possible because
they were armored by the fabric of their religious beliefs which helped them to overcome their
own diversities ,as different ethnic african groups ( often antagonists in Africa, before the
western colonisation) .

Unfortunately, my way to conceive Capoeira is utopic and unrealistic: why ?
Imagine a huge tree like the Baobab is, and two branches sticking out of his trunk, growing in
two different directions. You cannot stay on the two at the same time , moreover if you want to
move from one to another you have to make a big jump or go back to the fork to reach the
other one.

Nowadays we have Mestre Bimba’s ( Capoeira Regional) followers and Mestre Pastihna’s (
Capoeira Angola) ones.
It is for me a powerfull dichotomy, because from both sides there are Mestres who stand up
against each other for their own interests , whatever spiritual and/or materalistic ones.

And here comes the sadness of the situation : Capoeira is a laugther philosophical answer to
the brutality of the” Power ” and its leaders are forgetting the meaning , the values , the
profundity of thought of Capoeira !

Not just this : I felt pushed to make a choice. the message is :” with me or against me ” as
President Bush said once upon a time . But the context is so different ! What a paradox !

I want to know Capoeira as a whole thing and I would like to visit different groups and have
friends everywhere, I’m interested to experience different sides and aspects of this great
culture.
I attended events and classes from a variety of groups around the world and in Brazil as well,
and often I was between the devil and the deep blue sea : even the smallest movement at the
sight of a “fundamentalist mestre” seems to be a big insult to him, a big sacrilege. So at the
end of the story we can’t be friend ,because I do Negativa or Meia Luae Frente like this instead
of like that !
Stupid, shortsighit ! Fragmented ! Instead of being united again to fight against the modern
slavery, we are becoming sort of clowns of the Capoeira Circus around the world !

I do not want this , I don’t love this at all !

Please sit with me in a big circle and try to discuss with me ,in order to find a solution, a
practical solution for tha sake of the Capoeira values, without being sectarian ! We need to
break this vicious circle !

I would like, at this point , to mention two facts that happened along my most recent
participation at a capoeira angola event in Australia. I’m speaking about the execution of
negativa de angola which could be done on both sides simmetrically or standing on the same
leg ; mestres angoleiros bahianos tought me this second way in Bahia. Iwas performing this
movement when suddenly the Mestre there stooped me ,asking :” Eh! Where does it come
from this funny thing? For sure is Regional ! ” I did not have my time to reply.

Personally I think that a different movement should not upset anybody, and at the same time ,
as long as this movement is efficient and beatiful it should be welcome.

Or no more creativity is allowed in capoeira ? Are we joking ? Unfortunately it is a seroius
matter : we are speaking about intolerance and egemony. Non sense in Capoeira !

The second episode is concerning my question to same mestre about mutual cooperation
among the Capoeira groups around us: the anwer was :”Never !” that’sit ! Even worse than
before !

This is the actual situation in Capoeira